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| G JONES |
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NetHosted Customer
Joined: 24 May 2006
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: 2nd website comments ? |
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Just launched our 2nd website using (awesome) NetHosted!
http://www.maplesigns.co.uk 
Only the framework there at the moment - lots more to do - but thought it (might) be a good idea to poll some comment before I (waste) too much more time on it ?
Appreciate any (helpful)  comments (constructive) criticism
Thank You all  |
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| NetHosted - Andrew |
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good! I would suggest thinning out the text on your homepage as in my view there is quite a lot for someone to read and I guess a lot of people just wont bother. I remember reading a study on how people "read" websites and big blocks of text was a definite no no on landing pages.
Andrew
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| G JONES |
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NetHosted Customer
Joined: 24 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Don't know what happened with the introductory post - seems to have vanished
edit
- it's back again - what's going on ?
Here it is again...
http://www.maplesigns.co.uk/index.php
| NetHosted - Andrew wrote: | Looks good! I would suggest thinning out the text on your homepage as in my view there is quite a lot for someone to read and I guess a lot of people just wont bother. I remember reading a study on how people "read" websites and big blocks of text was a definite no no on landing pages.
Andrew |
You mean just the central block of "blurb" ? - I really only put that in because it was "a space to fill" - I need to find the "study" you read for some more guidance
I already modified the "look" of the site after I had a "mauling" from a few folks at a forum I visit 
It is however very helpful to get feedback from a few places - even if it "stings" a bit when it is a thumbs down
Better to try and "hone it to perfection" in the early days - as very few people know it exists at the moment - without a request for comment like this.
It's been a very time consuming task - and lots more to learn yet 
Last edited by G JONES on Thu May 17, 2007 7:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| NetHosted - Andrew |
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly designing a site from scratch is very hard, I think people can be overly critical. Constructive always helps though  yep I meant the central blurb.
Andrew
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| boughtonp |
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NetHosted Customer
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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Location: South Croydon
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I already modified the "look" of the site after I had a "mauling" from a few folks at a forum I visit
It is however very helpful to get feedback from a few places - even if it "stings" a bit when it is a thumbs down |
Oh good, so you're ready for more mauling? 
Too things immediately strike me (before even the excess content, which I'll go onto in a second):
1) Colours.
I'm not fond of that turquoise myself, but if you want it that's fine. However, you need the rest of the site to work with it.
You need a pale off-white background to go with it (maybe #D7EEEF or similar), and the links must not be the colour they are - it's Wrong.
Try using the current hover colour for the default (non-hover) menu link colour, and switch to a brighter red for a new hover colour.
2) It's wonky.
What that means is that sizes are inconsistant - the two corner containers should be the same width as the menu.
You can either widen the menu items or narrow the corner bits - I'd opt for narrowing to make it less crowded, but either will improve things.
The borders around the images also make things look not right - only the bob crowther one needs the border - the rest all have their own.
(except for the race&m/cycle one, which needs re-doing: the text has too much vertical space compared to horizonal space, and not enough (or too much) of the two photos are touching)
Now, for the third thing...
| G JONES wrote: | | You mean just the central block of "blurb" ? - I really only put that in because it was "a space to fill" |
That's the mistake your making - space isn't bad.
Here's one way of cutting down the opening:
Welcome to Maple Signs - as the heading says - "Signs & Graphics
In Vinyl" - which means we produce (almost) anything in the way of Lettering & Images in Vinyl....
This is a new site, so please bear with us as we enter everything onto it. In the meantime, you can easily contact us using the Contact Form , which sends an email direct to us.
(Note: Make Contact Form a link to the contact form.)
The page explanations... keep each bit to a single sentence, and use bullet points. (That's <ul> and <li> tags)
Oh, and you can probably take off the border round the main content - once you've fixed the wonkiness it'll probably not be necessary.
If you do keep it, make it match the turqoise colour (but half as bright, #B1DDE1 perhaps)
Some other less major things:
- Take off the quotemarks on the heading, and make it a sans-serif font.
This also applies to several other pages - most quotes shouldn't be there, and you need to specify a serif font for th headings.
- In most cases, you should use paragraphs (<p>...</p>), not linebreaks (<br/>).
- You've made a start at CSS, which is good, but you've got a lot of inline styles which should be abstracted to classes, and there are some bits which are simply wrong. Remember, markup (HTML) describes what data is, stylesheets (CSS) describe how it looks. The two should only be linked by classes and ids; the inline style attribute is naughty.
- You've got some bright red text on a few pages. Consider if you definitely want it red, and even if you do, make it less bright.
Anyway, that's enough for now... hopefully these comments have all been helpful?
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| NetHosted - Andrew |
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Great feedback there boughtonp
Andrew
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| G JONES |
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NetHosted Customer
Joined: 24 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Oh good, so you're ready for more mauling? |
Steady 
| Quote: | 1) Colours.
I'm not fond of that turquoise myself, but if you want it that's fine. However, you need the rest of the site to work with it.
You need a pale off-white background to go with it (maybe #D7EEEF or similar), and the links must not be the colour they are - it's Wrong.
Try using the current hover colour for the default (non-hover) menu link colour, and switch to a brighter red for a new hover colour. |
Yep - not sure with colours yet - it is so much down to personal pref - I do take your point though - I may (when I've learnt how to do it ) put a style changer script in - so everyone gets what they want - I don't know if it's possible to track the "most popular styles from that ? - just a thought..
Also - is funny - Part of "maul" was because I had a pale cream background in the centre text area
| Quote: | 2) It's wonky.
What that means is that sizes are inconsistant - the two corner containers should be the same width as the menu.
You can either widen the menu items or narrow the corner bits - I'd opt for narrowing to make it less crowded, but either will improve things. |
Yep - I had a border showing on the Left /Right menu columns - which meant it lined up with the two top L/R boxes - "post maul" - I removed the borders - which has left that wrong - I was trying also to keep the centre header lining up with the main text area - Need to tweak there a bit - am still learning CSS - and have had some issues with the "Funny" browser ? that most people insist on using 
| Quote: | The borders around the images also make things look not right - only the bob crowther one needs the border - the rest all have their own.
(except for the race&m/cycle one, which needs re-doing: the text has too much vertical space compared to horizonal space, and not enough (or too much) of the two photos are touching) |
Sorry
| Quote: | Now, for the third thing...
That's the mistake your making - space isn't bad. |
Agreed - I do intend making a lot of changes to content - It was more a case of having "something" on the page to give it a start - rather than looking at a blank canvas
| Quote: | Here's one way of cutting down the opening:
[(Note: Make Contact Form a link to the contact form.) |
Will probably go for that - I missed that one....
| Quote: | | The page explanations... keep each bit to a single sentence, and use bullet points. (That's <ul> and <li> tags) |
Another good suggestion - Just how fast do people move on ? - does anyone actually read anything at all anymore ?
| Quote: | Oh, and you can probably take off the border round the main content - once you've fixed the wonkiness it'll probably not be necessary.
If you do keep it, make it match the turqoise colour (but half as bright, #B1DDE1 perhaps) |
That would cure the header line up problem ?
| Quote: | | Some other less major things: |
You mean that was MAJOR ?
| Code: | - Take off the quotemarks on the heading, and make it a sans-serif font.
This also applies to several other pages - most quotes shouldn't be there, and you need to specify a serif font for th headings. |
Part of the maul was because I had mostly Serifs in - I had left the fonts unspecified - thinking it would be better for browser compatability - i was wrong - I have changed most to sans - still need a bit more tweaking....
| Quote: | | - In most cases, you should use paragraphs (<p>...</p>), not linebreaks (<br/>). |
Sorry
| Quote: | | - You've made a start at CSS, which is good, but you've got a lot of inline styles which should be abstracted to classes, and there are some bits which are simply wrong. Remember, markup (HTML) describes what data is, stylesheets (CSS) describe how it looks. The two should only be linked by classes and ids; the inline style attribute is naughty. |
Nothing like a bit of abstraction - (I have to try not to take it too seriously all the time - as it would drive me crazy sometimes) - I have had a LOT to learn - and plenty more yet - I have done so much reading on the subject - but until you have a better understanding of the whole process (working on it) between HTML & Style Sheet - it's a lot to take in ?
I didn't even know Style sheets existed a few months ago 
| Quote: | | - You've got some bright red text on a few pages. Consider if you definitely want it red, and even if you do, make it less bright. |
Yep - The red does somewhat "clash" with the other colours...
| Quote: | | Anyway, that's enough for now... hopefully these comments have all been helpful? |
Yes indeed - many thanks for taking the time - a few fresh pairs of eyes viewing - is helpful - I may not agree - or follow up on "everything" - but I most certainly appreciate the appraisal  |
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| G JONES |
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NetHosted - Andrew wrote: | Great feedback there boughtonp
Andrew |
Indeed - "very excellent" - thank you sir
Mr "Quickkeys" beats me to it again
Do you always jump the queue ? or maybe one - finger typing is too slow ?
(queue is that spelt correct ?? - or would KEW do ?) |
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| NetHosted - Andrew |
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| G JONES wrote: | | NetHosted - Andrew wrote: | Great feedback there boughtonp
Andrew |
Indeed - "very excellent" - thank you sir
Mr "Quickkeys" beats me to it again
Do you always jump the queue ? or maybe one - finger typing is too slow ?
(queue is that spelt correct ?? - or would KEW do ?) |
I waited at least ten minutes to reply to this one 
Andrew
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| G JONES |
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NetHosted Customer
Joined: 24 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| NetHosted - Andrew wrote: | | G JONES wrote: | | NetHosted - Andrew wrote: | Great feedback there boughtonp
Andrew |
Indeed - "very excellent" - thank you sir
Mr "Quickkeys" beats me to it again
Do you always jump the queue ? or maybe one - finger typing is too slow ?
(queue is that spelt correct ?? - or would KEW do ?) |
I waited at least ten minutes to reply to this one
Andrew |
Don't let me cramp your style
That's all folks - I'm going to me bed (first time before 2am for a while ) |
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| boughtonp |
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Location: South Croydon
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| G JONES wrote: | | Also - is funny - Part of "maul" was because I had a pale cream background in the centre text area |
Mmm, pale cream wouldn't be good. Nothing wrong with having the centre text area a different colour, but it'd need to be lighter & 'weaker' than the surroundings.
(like here - the quotes are lighter than the main posts, and the posts have darker/brighter headers and borders to 'hold in' the content.)
| Quote: | | Need to tweak there a bit - am still learning CSS - and have had some issues with the "Funny" browser ? that most people insist on using |
Yeah, I can't wait until IE6 can be ignored; will make many things much easier.
One useful thing to do is to clear all margins/padding/borders by default:
| Code: | | * {margin: 0; border-width: 0; padding: 0} |
And then manually add them back in only where you want one.
| Quote: | | Another good suggestion - Just how fast do people move on ? - does anyone actually read anything at all anymore ? |
People generally like to scan things quickly and then only read the bits that interest them, particularly on front pages.
Of course, bullet points can sometimes be counter-productive too - it's a balancing act, and depends on both the content and context.
| Quote: | | Part of the maul was because I had mostly Serifs in - I had left the fonts unspecified - thinking it would be better for browser compatability - i was wrong - I have changed most to sans - still need a bit more tweaking.... |
Mmm, it's a tough one - it's good to allow people to decide themselves, but in most cases menus & titles look better in a simple clean font.
| Quote: | I have had a LOT to learn - and plenty more yet - I have done so much reading on the subject - but until you have a better understanding of the whole process (working on it) between HTML & Style Sheet - it's a lot to take in ?
I didn't even know Style sheets existed a few months ago |
Yeah, there really is a lot to CSS, and very few people that know much about it. Once you understand the process and the techniques (specificity, selectors, the box model, etc) it does become a lot easier, but that's still only the start.
I'm not a huge fan of the site, but W3Schools can help give a good introduction to stylesheets, and has a handy reference guide too.
| Quote: | | I'm going to me bed (first time before 2am for a while |
Goodnight.
Crap, it's 1am, I better go get asleep too. 
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| petethegeek |
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| G JONES wrote: | | - am still learning CSS - |
As are we all. Like a lot of people I was initially somewhat overwhelmed by css and rapidly started to become subsumed in the technicalities.
Fortunately there are now a number of excellent resources, written by technically capable designers who approach the subject from the perspective of what can be achieved, and then demonstrate how to achieve it. Examples that I have personally found illuminating include anything by Dan Cederholm - his Bulletproof Web Design in particular - and CSS Mastery by Andy Budd et al.
I am also a strong believer in simply spending time looking at other people's websites and asking yourself questions; "Is it a good site?", "What makes this site stand out?", "Why?", etc.
For examples of how effective a straightforward static site can be, I would suggest you can do a lot worse than checkout the work of rich_b - an occasional poster here who I hope will forgive me for drawing attention to himself.
Regards,
Pete
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